The First Semester of Medical School

Heidi Nowakoski Pre-med is a popular major at LSU, but how do you prepare for medical school and what’s it like once you are there? We are highlighting former LSU College of Science students in different stages of their medical careers—from just getting accepted to the final stretches—to learn what it takes to succeed in medical school.

This episode is featuring Heidi Nowakowski, LSU Spring 2019 College of Science grad. Heidi is currently in her second year in med school at LSU New Orleans, but we caught her in the middle of her first semester. She shares her insights into what it takes to get into medical school, the first semester transition struggles, and her advice on how to cope with med school stress. (Transcript below.)

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Additional Resources

LSU Experimental is a podcast series that shares the research and the “behind the scenes” stories of LSU faculty, student, and alumni investigators across the disciplines. Listen and learn about the exciting topics of study and the individuals posing the questions. Each episode is recorded and produced in CxC Studio 151 on the campus of Louisiana State University, and is supported by LSU Communication across the Curriculum and LSU College of Science. LSU Experimental is hosted by Dr. Becky Carmichael and edited by Kyle Sirovy.

Transcript

Becky Carmichael

[0:00] This is LSU Experimental, where we explore exciting research occurring at Louisiana State University and learn about the individuals posing the questions. I'm Becky Carmichael.

Pre-med is a popular major at LSU, but how do you prepare for medical school? And what's it like once you're there? We're highlighting former LSU College of Science students in different stages of their medical careers, from just getting accepted, to the final stretches to learn what it takes to succeed in medicine. This episode features Heidi Nowakowski; LSU Spring 2019 College of Science graduate and chemistry major. Heidi is currently in her second year in med school at the Health Sciences Center at LSU New Orleans, but we happen to catch her in the middle of her first semester. She shared her insights into what it takes to get into med school, the first semester transition struggles, and her advice on how to cope with stress.

Heidi Nowakowski!

Heidi Nowakowski

[1:04] Hello.

Becky Carmichael

[1:06] Thank you so very much for joining me today. I'm super, I'm super excited to learn about how your first semester has gone in medical school, catch up a little bit with you. So for our listeners, would you go ahead and introduce yourself? What's your connection to LSU? And how are you feeling after this first semester?

Heidi Nowakowski

[1:30] Okay, well, I'm Heidi Nowakowski. I graduated from LSU in chemistry, in May 2018. And it's been a crazy semester. Not … like ups and downs, not what I expected. But overall, you know, a pleasant, maybe not pleasant, but like a good experience. I'm happy. I'm happy.

Becky Carmichael

[1:54] Yeah. So tell me, where are you going (to) medical school right now.

Heidi Nowakowski

[1:57] Oh, um I go to LSU in New Orleans. At the Health Sciences Center.

Becky Carmichael

[2:01] Yeah? So, um, before- before you enter again, you know, while in undergrad, what were some of the things that you were thinking about to prepare yourself?

Heidi Nowakowski

[2:11] Well, obviously there's the MCAT. And that was always sort of in the back of my mind, that's the entrance exam. But I, you know, there are prereqs, different classes you need to take, uh different, I don't know, checkboxes some people talk about, although I, I didn't really, I don't know, I wasn't really sure I wanted to go to med school until like, late late in my college time. Like end of junior year. So I, my, my path wasn't as traditional I don't think, but yeah. MCAT prerequisite classes, you know, certain checkboxes you have to do like that.

Becky Carmichael

[2:45] What was that moment that said this was the right path for you?

Heidi Nowakowski

[2:49] Um, I don't know, it was always in the back of my mind. My parents are in the medical field. And so I've been exposed to that world for a long time. But I was a little rebellious. And I was like, I don't want to do it just because my parents are in medicine. I wanted to sort of find my own way. And so I guess, the- one of the main things that stand out to me, that made me realize I want to be a doctor is the movie, Requiem for a Dream. Oh, really? Yeah. Really, really tough movie to watch. But there are a few scenes in that movie, where the people, the patients are treated so badly. Like the doctors just don't even look at them. They're like, here have this pill. And they're like, I don't know, you really see how the patients suffer from that poor, poor care. And so the, I don't know, I watched him I was like, "Okay, I want to do this, right," because these people are trusting doctors at their most vulnerable, and I want to be there to meet them there and like, help them in that moment, if I can.

Becky Carmichael

[3:54] Well that's, I think that's powerful. And I think that that's, that's something that you know, as a patient you're wanting as well. You're going to find that compassion, that care.

Heidi Nowakowski

[4:02] Everyone's gonna be a patient at one point, that's like the unique thing because as a doctor, I, okay, I don't know why I'm pointing to myself. I'm not a doctor yet. But, but yeah, doctors are patients too. And so it might be easy to lose sight of that. I'm not sure yet, but I'm sure it can be. You can be jaded. But yeah, we definitely can understand the other side of it. Because you've been there, your loved ones have been there.

Becky Carmichael

[4:27] Hmm. So you said both of your parents are in the medical field?

Heidi Nowakowski

[4:32] Yeah.

Becky Carmichael

[4:32] So what do your parents do? What kind of areas?

Heidi Nowakowski

[4:35]

My mom does the, the guts? GI, and then my dad does pulmonary, so lungs and breathing. He also does sleep.

Becky Carmichael

[4:44] Oh, awesome. So like this, he does like kind of work with like sleep apnea type issues?

Heidi Nowakowski

[4:50] Yeah that, yeah exactly.

Becky Carmichael

[4:51] I have seen both of those doctors. (Laughter)

Heidi Nowakowski

[4:54] I hope they helped.

Becky Carmichael

[4:55] Yes, yes. So I really want to kind of dive in with you on your first semester, so now that you've completed it, what has been those surprising aspects? How have you, and how have you worked through any challenges?

Heidi Nowakowski

[5:13] Um, it was all just surprise after surprise. Like, I, you know people say it's hard and I- you know you're like, "Okay, maybe they're exaggerating," but it is challenging. Like, I didn't have a lot of time for myself. I had uh, at LSU classes were from eight till 12. Pretty everyday, eight to 12. And on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, at least three of those hours were in the anatomy lab, we are working with, with cadavers and dissections, which was, that's another story. That's another story on its own, but yeah, eight to 12 pretty much every day, and then certain days we'd have little clinical skills classes an extra two hours after that. And that those are what we call our doctor classes where we actually learn how to get a ticket history for a patient, different aspects of a physical exam, and things like that. Studying, however, took up most of the rest of the day. So I don't know, I think on average, people were saying something like, you want to try and do five hours a day just to like, stay on top of things.

Becky Carmichael

[6:29] Wow.

Heidi Nowakowski

[6:30] And whether or not that happens every day, you know, that's different, but five hours a day extra. I feel like you'd be golden.

Becky Carmichael

[6:40] Goodness. So this first semester you jumped into anatomy lab.

Heidi Nowakowski

[6:44] Mhmm.

Becky Carmichael

[6:47

And not having anything like that previously, can you walk us through what were some of the, what were some things that made you anxious before you even entered? And then what were- what was it like to be in this room?

Heidi Nowakowski

[6:59] I think, I was really nervous about anatomy lab. I don't think I slept too much the night before. Because I had this insane thought that, you know, whether or not I could handle seeing the cadaver would determine if I could actually be a doctor. I was really scared, like, of being, I don't know, too, I don't know, not tough enough, or whatever the right word is, to handle it. And I was scared that you know, just then and there, I would know, you're not meant for this, you need to leave. And that's just, I- I don't know, I- that's what I was worried about for some reason. And so we got to the lab, I was really nervous. And, but everyone else was and that actually helped a lot knowing I wasn't the only one with these crazy irrational fears about it. And so the way it worked was there are 50 cadavers in between two rooms and one cadaver for about four students. And so you got really close with your ... we call them tank mates because, look, cadavers are held in tanks. Ah, so we are pretty close. And I remember the first day. I don't know, we're all, we're all nervous. We didn't know how to hold the scalpel. Well no one was really shaking, but basically, like at that point, but it ended up being okay. I don't know, there's just something. There's just something about the way, the way they did it, the way they introduced different parts of the body to us that made it a little less, like, anxious or made us less anxious about it. We didn't like for example, we didn't unmask the faces until the end. Uh huh. Because we did the head and neck anatomy last. And so we had that trout on for the whole, you know, for two thirds of the semester until the very end and that by the time we did unmask it, I think we were all a little more ready and prepared for the most human part of the human.

Becky Carmichael

[9:01] I would imagine that walking in and seeing a space or it's even if it's, you said, tanks? Trying to remove the idea that these were, these were humans versus, you know, these were actual people with lives. Yeah. And then now having to approach it from a very clinical, I need to use this, this person to learn how to be a good, how to become a doctor, right?

Heidi Nowakowski

[9:24] Well, they called them our first patients. And that, that was the way, that was our mindset throughout the whole thing. These people did, such a gift what they gave us, they didn't have a normal funeral, you know, so we can learn from everything they have.

Becky Carmichael

[9:41] Wow.

Heidi Nowakowski

[9:42] Yeah.

Becky Carmichael

[9:42] That's, that's a powerful way. I think that I like that phrasing, that they're your first patients.

Heidi Nowakowski

[9:48] Yeah. And actually, it was really cool. Um, towards the end of the year, we got to find out how old they were, when they died, their cause of death, and their occupation.

Becky Carmichael

[9:58] Really?

Heidi Nowakowski

[9:59] Yeah, it kind of, it was nice.

Becky Carmichael

[10:00] So you had a little bit more of a personal story about that individual.

Heidi Nowakowski

[10:05] Definitely.

Becky Carmichael

[10:06] Wow.

Heidi Nowakowski

[10:06] I gotta say my cadaver. He was 91. And he had amazing muscles. Like they were, nothing was like wasted away. Everything was big. And he was just an accountant. So you know?

Becky Carmichael

[10:18] Wow.

Heidi Nowakowski

[10:20] Self help, it's really important lifestyle.

Becky Carmichael

[10:25] There had been, I had heard something recently about, you know, maintaining your overall health keeping... mobile as much as you can as you get older.

Heidi Nowakowski

[10:34] Yeah.

Becky Carmichael

[10:35] 91?

Heidi Nowakowski

[10:36] Mhmm.

Becky Carmichael

[10:37] That's, that's awesome.

Heidi Nowakowski

[10:38] We would have never guessed.

Becky Carmichael

[10:41] You wouldn't have guessed he was 91.

Heidi Nowakowski

[10:43] Uh-uh.

Becky Carmichael

[10:43] Wow.

Heidi Nowakowski

[10:44] He had like, his quads, his biceps. Pretty, pretty good. Honestly.

Becky Carmichael

[10:50] That's awesome.

So, this was one class. Did you have any other classes the first semester that were challenging, or that gave you pause?

Heidi Nowakowski

[11:02] So we only had three classes, we had anatomy, which is the big beast. And then we had biochemistry, which a lot of people had seen before. That, that one was more common for people to be a little more familiar with. And then we also had that, a clinical skills class. Where we, our doctor class. But yeah, biochemistry was also, it could sneak up on you, you could get distracted by anatomy, because it's very, that's just a very, like, intense course, demands a lot of your time. But bio, you can't, you can't let that slip by either.

Becky Carmichael

[11:38] Did any of the classes here at LSU? The biochemistry classes here at LSU? Did they help you for...

Heidi Nowakowski

[11:44] Definitely.

Becky Carmichael

[11:45] Yeah?

Heidi Nowakowski

[11:45] It really, It really helped seeing a lot of the information before because anatomy was so new to me. I had never taken it and I needed to devote more time to that. So it really, it was helpful that I had like, at least some sort of grip on the biochem part. So I can maybe let, let studying for that slide a little bit every now and then. More often maybe than I should have. But, yeah, but also, I will say, the people who had never seen that before, it was probably just as tough as anatomy.

Becky Carmichael

[12:17] Wow.

Heidi Nowakowski

[12:18] It's possible to get through it for sure. But I really felt for those people.

Becky Carmichael

[12:22] I'm really getting a sense from you, Heidi, that the intensity of this class, of, of this semester was something that was, was expected yet wasn't. If you could go, if you had to do this over and I'm not telling that you, you- telling you that you need to do this over. (Laughter) But if you had to do this over, what is there anything that you think you could have done to better set yourself up?

Heidi Nowakowski

[12:49] I, I don't know. I can't imagine doing it again, I guess. But now that- you know, thinking about it yeah, there's definitely things I should have done better. Beforehand, and, and during the semester. But like, I don't know, you just have no way of knowing what's coming for you. I would, I would say I- one thing, I didn't have a lot of that other people probably had more and that helped them was experience actually in the medical field in some way like maybe shadowing more doctors or being a scribe or something. I'm sure that helped a lot with the anatomy. Maybe not. I don't know, anatomy, I'm a little jaded. I don't know if anything could help for that except maybe, you, taking the class before but yeah, more, more like a, time in the medical field would have helped.

Becky Carmichael

[13:40] But do you think Well, I mean, with both of your parents as physicians, that had to help you though, as well, right.

Heidi Nowakowski

[13:46] Yeah!

Becky Carmichael

[13:46] Because you had that? I would imagine that there was conversations and, and not maybe opportunities to?

Heidi Nowakowski

[13:53] Definitely and they, they made a joke at the beginning of the semester that as doctors, you're gonna hear a lot of acronyms thrown at you. They, they shorten everything because all the procedures, all the like instruments have really long names, they shorten it all. And, you know, I've heard some of those acronyms thrown around at home, that so that, that did help I guess.

Becky Carmichael

[14:14] So one of the reasons why I thought this would be a really fun time to speak with you is because this is your, you know, after your first semester, this has been fresh, but also I mean, you recently graduated and and received your undergrad. And we have a lot of students that, here at LSU, that are pre-med they're on that track, right?

Heidi Nowakowski

[14:34] Yeah.

Becky Carmichael

[14:34] As someone who is- has just kind of begun their journey in med school. What should be on every student's checklist, who plans to attend medical school? Do you have maybe your top three things?

Heidi Nowakowski

[14:53] Well, okay. Some of them are obvious, like anyone who's pre med probably knows about the MCAT You gotta take it seriously, gotta study for it, and you gotta do your best, because that's your way in, like, that's your gateway to the interviews, getting noticed by any medical school. And of course, like a good GPA, that's also more important. And then, I guess, so that would be one. The second thing, I would say, clinical experience in any capacity is really valuable. Because you, one, get a better sense of what you're trying to do with your life. And what's, what's waiting for you. And then two, you are a little more prepared for, you know, the classes you're going to take in medical school because everything is with a medical twist. Like I did take biochem here, at LSU. It was a very tough, and very good class. But um, you know, it wasn't enough without like, I couldn't just rely on that I still had to study and learn new things. Everything was clinically based in that biochem and then the third thing that I think is pretty important too is like, use your strengths. Like if you have a hobby or you have something that makes you really unique, like, I don't know, photography or something. I think, I think that's pretty valuable because you, everyone's gonna, like, chances are, everyone's gonna have the same GPA as you, you each have to think like that. Same GPA summit, same MCAT unless you do like, amazing on the MCAT. Then you can probably swing, swing by but... everyone, everyone's good. Everyone who's trying to get in is good so you have to try to stand out a little bit like- and don't force that either, do things that you really like and enjoy and don't. So what I'm saying is- don't just stay at home and like watch TV whenever you're not stressing about getting into medical school or studying. You know, go out and explore your hobbies, add to your, you know, add to your resume in a fun way.

Becky Carmichael

[17:00] That's an important, that last one is especially important because, you know, that's also, that's also potentially the way to relieve your stress and to manage your time and make sure that you're, you're you're doing that self care. Well, you know, this is, this is something fun that I like to do is like, what is the what is that gray area? And how do you, how do you connect either with a solid straight line or a dashed line to you know, this career as well as that hobby part, right? Because there could be something like you mentioned photography, now you've got an eye for detail, and...

Heidi Nowakowski

[17:32] You know, some, some medical schools, they offer courses on art, like the art, the art of observing art, because attention to detail is so important. You don't want to miss anything on your patient. And so some schools, yeah, they'll, they'll take it in a different twist, make you analyze the painting, and you can later on apply those skills, you know, in the field.

Becky Carmichael

[17:56] That would be a fun class to take regardless of whether I was in a medical school or not right?

Heidi Nowakowski

[18:01] Yeah? It's important any, any aspect of life you can apply it.

Becky Carmichael

[18:05] What are some other things that you've found that medical school seems to, to value or emphasize for students that are applying as well as a student that's in.

Heidi Nowakowski

[18:17] Okay, um applying I think, I think schools like to emphasize diversity, well roundedness and they also of course, like I keep saying it, but it is important like the scores and the grades, they're not everything. I don't want to make it sound like that. But like, that is the easiest way they can tell like you can handle the workload and you can, you know, you can you can do well under, under this new, these new conditions, these new classes because you have a history of doing well in the past it maybe it's not the best way to tell that someone is like ready for medical school or like, can handle it, but it's the only way they've got I think. And this is like the easiest way to check with standardized testing, but um, they definitely, they definitely value well- well roundedness and diversity. So anything that makes me unique or standout. Um maturity, that's the best. That's best conveyed in an interview setting. So interviews are very important. But um, one thing they emphasized a lot to us in this first semester was mental health, which I hear is like it's a bit of a change from the past because they used to, I don't know, not talk about it as much but med students, doctors, they get burnt out and they're addressing it more now. And you know that it is a little bit funny sometimes because we say "Amen, they're giving us, you know three tests on the same day. How can they still harp about mental health when they're doing this to us," but, but I don't know. It- they definitely talk about it more and they definitely value it. We have lots of resources, if you're struggling with that.

Becky Carmichael

[19:59] That's really refreshing to hear because I think that... I think that as a society, we're coming to realize the importance of making sure that you're not just physically healthy so that you can have the long lush life but also that you are in a mental state to where you can, you can handle the challenges, but also you can you can find places where you can get help, and it's not this, it's dissolving that stigma that's been placed on...

Heidi Nowakowski

On mental health.

Becky Carmichael

Yeah!

Heidi Nowakowski

[20:29] Yeah. Just because you don't see something's wrong. Yeah, something could be very wrong. You don't want to push it away.

Becky Carmichael

[20:36] When you started to pursue this career, Would you share with us either the most useful poignant advice that you've received?

Heidi Nowakowski

[20:46] One thing, okay. That- I have to think about that, one thing that immediately comes to mind is my mom, she always tells me, if you want to do something, anything, do it all the way. Don't do it halfway, and you know, that, that's very valuable. That was- that was good advice for me. Uh, one, another thing someone told me was, you don't have to be a doctor. Do it if you want to do it, don't do it because you think you have to. And like, yeah, I don't know, that was a big like eye opener a little bit because I'm like, yeah this is my one life. I don't want to go through all this. If I'm, if I'm not going to be happy in the end. I don't know, I guess that those were good. Like, those were good pieces of advice I got.

Becky Carmichael

[21:36] I would imagine so. well I mean, I mean, I think that, yeah, you have to go. You have to be completely committed for this type of... of work.

Heidi Nowakowski

[21:44] And just like being honest here. Um, in the middle of the semester. I seriously thought about quitting medical school.

Becky Carmichael

[21:52] Really?

Heidi Nowakowski

[21:53] Yes. I just, I was in the height of- no that- I can tell you about the day. I was in the library at my school on a Friday night studying about the pelvis, which I hate, by the way, I hate the anatomy... (Laughter) over there. But um, I was in the library doing that on a Friday night. And I was just thinking, man I could be, I could be working as a chemist right now. I could be making money, maybe not a lot, but I could be on my own, you know, and actually, I wouldn't be studying right now. I'd be enjoying my weekend. Why am I here? And you know, if someone came up to me at that moment and said, "Hey, just sign this paper. You can quit." I'd probably sign it because I was so serious. But I, I don't know. I am so happy and lucky that I have good parents. Because I went home that night. I couldn't take it. I went home and I talked to my mom about it and she was like, "all right, you know, it'll be, it'll be okay. Give it some time. Don't do anything crazy right now cuz you hate the pelvis." (Laughter) But, um... but give it time. And like, I'm very happy I did, because it did get better. It was still hard, but it did get better. And that is one thing about medical school that I wasn't expecting. Eh- you might have already asked this, but I was not expecting it to take such a, like, mental toll on me. And I'm not talking about like, the new information, I'm just talking about, like, the transition.

Becky Carmichael

[23:21] Yeah.

Heidi Nowakowski

[23:22] Cuz it. It's so different. It's not and it is different from undergrad, because you're still taking- I mean, undergrads not for no job either. You're taking tough classes, you want to do well and everything and everything like that, but um... in medical school the classes are hard, the expectations are high, and the studying is much, like at least in my experience, I've never studied that much in my life. And you, there's just- I think this was more either universal, not just me, but there was like a constant kind of guilt. Like if I wasn't studying, I was like, "Oh, no! I should be studying!"

Becky Carmichael

[24:06] Oh, wow.

Heidi Nowakowski

[24:06] So it does take a mental toll on you. You have to really, you have to really want this to go through it.

Becky Carmichael

[24:12] Do you think the guilt's associated with the fact, and this is, this is me making a guess right?

Heidi Nowakowski

[24:17] Yeah.

Becky Carmichael

[24:17] But there's so many people that are wanting and trying to get into med school that when you were one of the lucky few that actually make it. Do you think that, there's guilt … did you feel guilt associated with that? Or just, do you think it was more? Because that's a big thing right there, right?

Heidi Nowakowski

[24:34

Oh, like someone actually did tell me during the semester, like, "wow I feel bad complaining about medical school all the time, because I worked so hard to get here. And so many other people are working to get here and I'm here and I'm just complaining all the time." You know, that was a bit of an eye opener for me too. I don't know if that, that was where that- that guilt was coming from, the not studying guilt. I think it's just me being me... me being "Oh, time- time is wasting I need to spend it well." You know. But um, definitely that, that... uh, just concept: that people are trying to get here and meanwhile I'm here, not happy and complaining, like, you know Heidi get a grip, you should be thankful.

Becky Carmichael

[25:23] But I also think it's important to acknowledge that right? So there's, there were a couple of things that you've mentioned is that you know, you've got this group of people, and you're all... you all have a similar GPA, you all have maybe a similar MCAT. And I think it's easy to fall into that trap of not thinking that you're going to be able to do something because you're surrounded by people that are of the same caliber, right? So that to me, and I speak toward, you know, graduate school, I speak toward being in any kind of position where it is challenging, you're around that same group, that same kind of people, you're in a small niche.

Heidi Nowakowski

[26:03] Yeah.

Becky Carmichael

[26:04] And so your, your standout qualities might not stand out as far and your, I think you could be more self critical.

Heidi Nowakowski

[26:13] One thing I definitely struggled with, and again, this is like, all like, the mental games you play with yourself. At one point I just didn't think I'd make a good doctor based on my first semester of medical school. I know it's crazy, like talking back on it. It is a little dumb. But I, I don't know. I'm, like, like you said, everyone, everyone's kind of at the same level in medical school. There are a few, like, genius people, but then I think that might be everywhere. But everyone's about the same. And so yeah, you, you start to analyze yourself a little more. And then inevitably, that leads to you picking out flaws. So one thing about me was that I'm more of a quiet person. I'm an introvert, I like to keep to myself. And a lot of my classmates are very outgoing, outspoken, very eloquent people. And I, I don't know, just like sitting there like listening to some of them in our group discussions. I just thought, "Man, I'm not like these people, maybe I won't be ... they'll be such good doctors. I, I must not be able to be a good doctor because I'm not like these people." And that, that was like, kind of, it got me down a little bit, I will say, but I did talk to my mentor and like other people and actually talking to other people, I wasn't the only one with thoughts at, like this. Everyone doubts themselves, but it does take all kinds of people to be doctors. And that was such a good thing to hear. I guess that was another piece of advice that I really, I really resonated with. It takes all types of people. You don't have to be, you know, the most outgoing extroverted person in the room. And if you are, great! You'll make a great doctor too, if that's what you really want to be. Like I think the common denominator with all these different types of people is compassion. You know, a willingness to help, and you don't have to be a certain personality type to have that. And that that was so, so nice to hear, like a burden came off my shoulders.

Becky Carmichael

[28:22] I'm, I'm ecstatic that usually you shared that. That was beautiful. I mean, yeah, I think that, I think what you just said was, what if we had this one perception of what a doctor should be, but we're not not identifying and seeing that a doctor could be any of these, any person. Then it can have this effect where others will just, like you were just saying, maybe I'm not. Maybe I'm not able to do it. If you, it's so important that, you know, we're talking about kind of issues that maybe make us question our abilities, and making sure others hear that so that we're not losing the qualities.

Heidi Nowakowski

[29:02]

That makes you who you are, that can make you a good doctor, if that's what you want to do for the right reasons. Yeah. Don't, don't lose sight of what makes you you, don't try to fit into what you think you should be like. Because you'll make much more of a difference being who you are. You don't have to go into radiology or pathology and avoid people if you're shy. You can, you can still be out in the open and have patient interaction.

Becky Carmichael

[29:29] Right? Well, and-

Heidi Nowakowski

[29:32] Which is what I thought at first, I was like "oh I'll just be a pathologist and stay in the lab," but it turns out, I actually, I think I would love patient interaction.

Becky Carmichael

[29:43] I think that that would be good. And I think that there is something to be said about if you walk into a room and you're trying to find a personality that matches yours, because you don't want somebody who, at least for me, man, I get nervous if I walk into a room and somebody is way too peppy. Or they're just, they're very standoffish. I want somebody, I want to walk in the room and-. Oh, yeah, I want to walk into the room and feel like somebody actually cares.

Heidi Nowakowski

[30:10] Yeah.

Becky Carmichael

[30:11] And that they're going to show me some compassion. So if somebody, if somebody is shy, I'm okay with that. (Laughter)

Heidi Nowakowski

[30:18] Yeah, definitely. Like, yeah.

Becky Carmichael

[30:21] So, we've talked to, we've talked quite a bit about, you know, the challenges that you have, you've faced. And I want to thank you for sharing all of those things. Because, yeah, these are, I don't think that these are talked about as much. And I'm excited that you were willing to share those. I do want to, though, ask, you've been doing a lot of studying. Tell us what are the, what were some fun things that you were also doing to try to balance this?

Heidi Nowakowski

[30:50] Okay. Well, actually, I did a lot of fun things too. Because New Orleans is a cool city. There's lots of fun going around, around you, going on around you. But um, one thing I did is, I really, I really love the movies. And I met a few people. Actually, I knew a lot of them from LSU, but we kind of reconnected in medical school and we formed a little group and we watch kind of weird movies together, like the kinds of movies that I personally would not have the guts to watch by myself. Like, either really scary or just really weird.

And so we've done that a few times. That's really fun. And also I joined a little, a little group of musicians, also in medical school, and we have a little band going. And that's really fun.

Becky Carmichael

[31:24] Yeah? What instrument are you playing?

Heidi Nowakowski

[31:38] The keyboard?

Becky Carmichael

[31:39] Nice!

Heidi Nowakowski

[31:40] Yeah.

Becky Carmichael

[31:42] What kind of music are we playing?

Heidi Nowakowski

[31:44] Very eclectic. Some of the guys like the grunge so were doing some grunge. I like funk, trying to push that we're doing- we did some like Lumineers, we did some, like, literally all different types of genres. Blues.

Becky Carmichael

[32:02] That's exciting, Heidi!

Heidi Nowakowski

[32:03] It's just really fun.

Becky Carmichael

[32:04] Yeah!

Heidi Nowakowski

[32:05] It's possible to have fun in medical school. It is tough, but it can be done.

Becky Carmichael

[32:10] But it also sounds like you're making those connections with, you know, fellow students, and that, they can help you, you can help each other and give each other that kind of support system.

Heidi Nowakowski

[32:18] That was another surprising thing about medical school. Like, just coming from undergrad, when you're kind- where you're kind of one of the masses, you can kind of like, float between classes, do your own thing. You're not with the same people every day. You go back into that environment. Everyone, you see, you see the same 200 people every day. And it can, like, it can... I don't know, it's just different from undergrad but it's like, also nice, because you're all going through the same thing. So you have 200 other people who are like, yeah, I know what you're going through, because not, I mean, I can- I can sit here and tell you, you know, whatever about anatomy lab. You know, the classes or whatever, but like, it's different going through it a little bit.

Becky Carmichael

[33:08] There's a lot of different services and resources that are available here at, here at Louisiana State University and our campus. What were some of those? What were some of the resources that you used for yourself and can you share how you'd use them?

Heidi Nowakowski

[33:26] A really nice resource that the school provides called the medical school review committee. And I used that and it really made the process of applying to medical school a lot more, a lot more simple, because they kind of took care of compiling my letters of recommendation, which is very important. You know, stay on good terms with your teachers. But they compiled that and like they wrote a separate letter for me and kind of took care of a lot of the details, which was really, really nice. That's the main thing I utilize from LSU. And it was probably the most important thing I could have done for my application. It's possible to do without it, but it definitely made the, made the whole process better.

Becky Carmichael

[34:14] What were some of the ... and I know this because I was your mentor for the distinguished communicator program, right? You also did undergraduate research, right?

Heidi Nowakowski

[34:23] Yeah.

Becky Carmichael

[34:23] So tell me, would you tell the listeners a little bit about what your research was and what of that aspect helped you? Or is helping you now?

Heidi Nowakowski

[34:33] Okay, well, first, my research, I got to work on the mosquito repellents in the organic chemistry, or the chemistry department, under an organic chemistry lab, trying to make different natural repellents, modifying them to see if they could be a little, a little stronger against keeping mosquitoes away. Was a lot of fun. As to how that helped me in Medical School, huh? That's interesting because it's not a like, well, like you were saying, it's not a straight line connection, it's one of those gray area, dashed lines. And that's how you get to this. I think, one thing it definitely helped me with was just work ethic, because it definitely required- like my mentor, she is such an amazing lady. And it's Dr. Carol Taylor. I'm gonna give her a shout out. She, she's such an amazing lady with a great work ethic and she had high expectations for everyone working for her. And that can be intimidating, but it actually, it pushes you to do the best you can. And so that, that was very, that experience was very valuable for me in medical school because you do- like I think I mentioned, there are expectations on you to do well, to learn all this stuff because this is where you're going to learn the things that you can use to treat people later on, like life or death stuff, if you really think about it. And I know it sounds dramatic, but, but yeah, that's kind of what you're doing right now. It's not. It's not just to get through the semester.

Becky Carmichael

[36:15] Yeah.

Heidi Nowakowski

[36:15] And so working in that lab and like putting in the hours to like, get the results and being able to deal with, you know, outcomes that weren't what I expected. That definitely, I don't know, brought me about, brought me down to earth and kept me a little more grounded. I think that helped a lot in medical school so far. And I think it could even help as a doctor eventually.

Becky Carmichael

[36:43] I think that well, I mean, the process of going through... kind of framing the questions, determining kind of pathways, what's the methodology that you're gonna use to try to figure this out and those steps? Yeah, what do you have at your disposal to investigate that question further? I would imagine that's all going to be...

Heidi Nowakowski

[37:01] One thing people don't really, at least I didn't think about this before I did research, is that it's such a creative thing. Because you, yeah, like you're playing in the rules of science or- I don't know, you know, the fine arts research goes like history or something. But like you are playing within rules, you have, like, certain bounds. You can't alter the laws of physics, you know, to make something work, which makes it- but if you could, would that would that be, at- that wouldn't be as creative because you can just say, "I'll do whatever," you have to work within these confined, confined boundaries to like, solve something. You have these constraints on you. And so yeah, you have to pull, like, different creative things out of, out of thin air almost sometimes to try to make something happen. So yeah, definitely.

Becky Carmichael

[37:50] I like, I like the idea of thinking about, of thinking about the work that you do and the work that we do in the sciences as an art. And really looking at the connections that you have with, with artisans and other, other fields and how their approaches are because I think it does help inform kind of the pathways that we would take to solve those problems.

Heidi Nowakowski

[38:12] One thing I will say that I really- I love this analogy is like saying you have a piano in front of you, you can hit any key you want. That, that's fine, you have the freedom to do that. But, you know, to like actually use the piano. However, like to make beautiful music, you have to put in the time and learn all the rules, learn how it works, learn how, what sounds good together, you have to take the time, and that's a lot and then then you have true freedom to like, make whatever is in your mind. That's kind of how research is. You have to learn all these rules, put in the time, you know, do your thermodynamics, whatever. And then you can like use that and make whatever you want. So it is, it is just like art.

Becky Carmichael

[39:01] So, you know, I'm not gonna be able to let you get out of here without asking you about Communication Across the Curriculums Distinguished Communicator Program. And yes, I know this is a little bit of a shameless plug, but since I got, I got to work with you, I got to be your CXC representative. And it was beyond a joy to be able to kind of watch you-

Heidi Nowakowski

[39:26] Yay. It was fun.

Becky Carmichael

[39:27] I know I, I was always like, "What is she going to come into this space with next," right? Can you- I'd like, I'd like you to tell the listeners what aspects have aided you in medical school that were part of the Distinguished Communicator Program.

Heidi Nowakowski

[39:49] Well, okay, so, my- I entered the program a little late. I think it was my junior year, so I had to scramble a little bit till I get on track. But the way I did that was I modified a lot of my classes to make them count for the CXC program. And a lot of what I did to modify them was like, I had to do extra presentations or write, write something. And one thing I have mentioned is that I'm a shy person. You know, I don't, I don't really love public speaking. I don't even love, sometimes, to speak in general. But the program really, like, encouraged me to sort of get out of my comfort zone in that way. Like I had to give a lot more presentations to people who knew way more about the topic than I did. I had to write papers about things... about concepts to the experts of those concepts and somehow sound, like, coherent- like I knew what I was talking about. And just just the fact that I had to push myself in that way with the support of the program. I think that helps me a lot to like, stretch out of my comfort zone. So now I feel- I can honestly say I feel more comfortable talking to people who I have a suspicion know more about something than I do, but um, and still holding my own. So that, that definitely helped. And also, I will say, I loved making the online portfolio. That was so fun. Because it really, like I'm very much the type of person who I can- I'll forget, sort of, the things that I've done, like the main points of them. So it really did force me to kind of sit down and reflect on all that I've done throughout, you know, throughout my undergraduate career and kind of figure out the best way to format and make it look coherent because a lot of what I did was like kind of different things that didn't kind of match up together. So that was very helpful. I had to kind of- like it forced me to sit down and reflect and connect those lines somehow and make what I've done, all the things that I participated in in undergraduate, like, kind of connect into one cohesive picture.

Becky Carmichael

[42:23] Did any of the process of pursuing the Distinguished Communicator program, did any of that aid when you were doing the interview with, for med school?

Heidi Nowakowski

[42:32] Yeah, definitely. Because, again, back to the whole expert thing, I was talking to doctors about medical school. And I had to like, you know, sound like I knew what I was doing, which I really didn't.

Becky Carmichael

[42:49] Did you tell them that you hated the pelvis at that time?

Heidi Nowakowski

[42:52] I didn't know. (Laughter) That's a new discovery.

Becky Carmichael

[42:55] Do you recall any of the questions that you were asked during the interview? Does one stand out.

Heidi Nowakowski

[43:01] Um,yeah, one of those standout. One guy, one doctor, he asked which Hogwarts house I'm in. It was, yeah, that that was a fun interview.

Becky Carmichael

[43:13] And what did you say?

Heidi Nowakowski

[43:15] Well, luckily for me, I've taken many a Harry Potter Sorting Hat quiz online. Like I took the official Pottermore one a few times. And I've taken, I've taken, there was like a scientific one that was like used for data. Like they were trying to make- get a paper out of it or something. I took that one too. And so I told him, I do get Ravenclaw a lot, but sometimes I get Gryffindor. So.

Becky Carmichael

[43:44] Do you have a preference then?

Heidi Nowakowski

[43:46] I mean, I would love to be in Gryffindor. I don't know if I can, if I, I'm like, I have what it takes, but I think I could, I think I would like Gryffindor.

Becky Carmichael

[43:54] That's a surprising question though to be asked.

Heidi Nowakowski

[43:57] I know, and my friend and I were talking, she's in school with me, about it later. And she's like, I'm glad they didn't ask me that because that- it threw, it threw me off, you know, like a light hearted fun question in the middle of an interview. So luckily, I had like experience with the Harry Potter quizzes and stuff, so I could use that. But yeah, it was a weird question, but I was really happy he asked it.

Becky Carmichael

[44:22] I'm guessing that you've already answered this.

Heidi Nowakowski

[44:24] Okay.

Becky Carmichael

[44:25] However, I'd like to have some dirt. I'm sure our listeners would like to have some dirt. What's the craziest, and weirdest thing that you've experienced so far on this medical path?

Heidi Nowakowski

[44:37] Oh so you want dirt on me?

Becky Carmichael

[44:39] Well no, not just dirt on you. But like if you had to pick something out. You know, what, what has been the craziest or the weirdest thing so far?

Heidi Nowakowski

[44:48] Okay.

Becky Carmichael

[44:49] That you can share... (Laughter)

Heidi Nowakowski

[44:51] Well, okay. I will say this. Like, it kind of seems normal to me now because we all had to do it. But we cut our cadavers face in half? Like we cut a human face in half. That like, looking- when I, when I sat back and thought about... that, I was like "That? Yeah, that is weird."

Becky Carmichael

[44:58] But it probably- you gotta, you've got to understand like how, how everything is layered and oriented, right?

Heidi Nowakowski

[45:19] There was a definite purpose to it. But like, just, just sitting back and thinking about that. I'm like, "Wow, We cut a head in half. Okay. Okay."

Becky Carmichael

[45:35] It has. It had to be surreal to do that to a human because I mean, like if you're in biology classes or you like, when I was an undergrad at Purdue, I mean, we were we were dissect- well, even in high school, we were dissecting cats. So you know, all these other things we were cutting into. It felt weird, but yet, it wasn't something that looked like you, right?

Heidi Nowakowski

[45:58] Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Becky Carmichael

[46:00] So that had to be very weird.

Heidi Nowakowski

[46:01] It was. It was also weird to hold the brain. Because it's like, everything that this guy ever thought, felt. Any action came from this. That was really surreal.

Becky Carmichael

[46:15] Was it heavy?

Heidi Nowakowski

[46:16] Yeah. The brain weighs eight pounds or something. That's like I'm Jerry Maguire. I mean it was the whole head. But yeah, it was kind of heavy.

Becky Carmichael

[46:27] Yeah.

Heidi Nowakowski

[46:29] And it was gooey, you know?

Becky Carmichael

[46:32] So that's where all, yeah, all your thoughts are coming from some kind of heavy gooey mass.

Heidi Nowakowski

[46:37] Yeah, right on top of you.

Becky Carmichael

[46:38] Has there been anything else that you would like to share with those that are listening?

Heidi Nowakowski

[46:44] Oh, I would say, I would say this. Okay. So you are in medical school. Right. And you have a lot of studying to do. But, and I've mentioned this before about New Orleans. But no matter what, whichever city you go to, if it's new, or if it's one you're used to, but especially if it's new, explore it, because that's a lot of fun. You know, take in, take in your surroundings. That's one thing I would recommend. Also, I don't know. Try, try to, try to keep your humanity and not become a crazy studying machine. Mental health is important.

Becky Carmichael

[47:21] Finding that balance.

Heidi Nowakowski

[47:22] Yeah, find your balance.

Becky Carmichael

[47:24] Heidi, I want to thank you so very, very much for finding time to sit down with me and share this experience. I really look forward to hearing from you for next semester. And then yeah, I hope- I hope you have a good and well deserved break.

Heidi Nowakowski

[47:38] Oh, thank you. It was really fun. Thank you for having me.

Becky Carmichael

[47:41] Of course.

This episode of LSU Experimental was recorded and produced in the CxC Studio 151 here on the campus of Louisiana State University, and it's supported by LSU's Communication Across the Curriculum and College of Science. Today's interview was directed and produced by me Becky Carmichael. The music is Bramby at Full Gallop by PC3. To learn more about today's episode, ask questions, and recommend future investigators visit cxc.lsu.edu/experimental. And while you're there, subscribe to the podcast. We're available on SoundCloud, iTunes, Stitcher and Google Play.